How gossip became something inferior – Radar
In “Krab,” Daan Borrel and Milou Deelen examine the image of women bringing each other down to move their own. Is that true? And how does it work? We can give you a taste of the very interesting book with this dive into history.
During the second feminist wave – a resurgencement of the women’s movement in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s – the concept of the “crab basket effect” was born. This was designed to describe the behavior of women tearing down other women. If a crab is in the basket, it can easily escape it on its own. When several crabs are in the same basket, they hinder each other: as soon as one crab tries to climb out of the basket, the others “scratch” them down. In this way, they remain in the basket without a fisherman having to take care of them. In analogy, the basket symbolizes patriarchy.
In this excerpt, Daan Borrel interviews Simon(e) van Saarloos (1990). She is a philosopher, writer, columnist, half of whom lives in the Netherlands and half in the United States. “I wonder what Simon (e) – she puts the ‘e’ in brackets to challenge gender norms – thinks as a philosopher about the phenomenon of “scratching”. In addition, as an opinion-former, she has often had to deal with a form of judgment.”
Sitting opposite each other in the café where we agreed, Simon (e) explains that she actually prefers not to speak out on the subject, “because it reproduces a typical image of jealous women, and I don’t see that at all. I can’t imagine you talking negatively about someone else. I can’t imagine that. I think it’s a make-up idea that women can’t hang out or support each other.’ She pauses for a moment and then says, “I don’t want to condemn the verdict because I’m participating in the same system.” She laughs. “Tricky.”
Yes, it’s a myth that women couldn’t get along, that they would always scratch each other, but there’s more to say about the subject, it turns out when I’m going through it. At one point, Simon jumps up and grabs a stack of books from her pocket. “It’s a long story that you don’t want to connect with women other than women,” she says. “As white women in Europe, we have a history of oppressing other women in order to have some power. I also find it easier to annoy my mother for the opportunities she missed, rather than annoyed with the system – because what is that? It is easier to judge your mother, another woman, and thus yourself, than to direct the anger outward. I think we underestimate the consequences of condemning our mothers for generations.”
Piece of Hell on Earth
A book she brought with her is called Witches, Witch Hunt and Women, written by Silvia Federici, and is the hardest subject. It is written about the witch-hunt in Europe in the sixteenth century. Witches were mainly older, single women who, when capitalism was born into capitalism – when the common country was divided among men and their families – had no country and no income, Simon explains. These so-called witches went against this division because they suddenly had no social position in the new system. For these women, the term “witch” was introduced because it made them appear as if the devil was living in these women.
I never connect witches with my own life, while this story still affects how I see other women now.
Devilship was attributed mainly to women, and with it hell appeared on earth for the first time. Women were afraid of it, of course they didn’t want a devil in them, no one wanted that, and so they began to watch other women and accuse other women of witchcraft, so that they themselves were protected by the state and men. In other words, they were pitted against each other.
I listen in amazement to the story of this witch. When Simon was talked out, I realized that I never had a lesson in witch-hunting in high school. Almost all wars and other massacres passed, but witches, no. Thousands of women came to their ends in a cruel way, and yet I think of the word “witch” for creepy women in faded dresses on broomsticks. I never connect witches with my own life, so the story still influences how I see other women now.
Architecture of society
Simon(s) explains that it helps her not only to explain phenomena such as crabs psychologically, i.e. not to blame your mother or herself for certain behaviors, but in this case to investigate where in society people are urged to condemn others. Witch-hunting is an example of this. She explains that there are other things in the “architecture” of our society that make us disapprove of other people. For example, many buildings are not accessible to the disabled. Another example: some districts are described as poor due to the demographics of the population and the cost of owning a home, and these districts are then less well maintained and less easily accessible by public transport.
Gossip was made a little inferior because it was dangerous for those in power, because women could resist by being together and talking.
“This creates the idea that some groups are better than others. It creates prejudice.” And vice versa, it works the same way: if there are already prejudices, the architecture is adjusted accordingly. It is a vicious circle in which abstract judgments have concrete consequences that feed judgments again.
Gossip was not negative
She picks up federici’s black-and-purple book again. “What she writes here is also very interesting for her research: the word “klatsch” meant before the sixteenth century, i.e. for the witch hunts, “girlfriend” or “meeting with other women”. Women gathered in a pub to clap: talk about life or make plans. “Gossip” was not a negative thing.” This gossip was made somewhat inferior because it was dangerous for those in power, because women could resist by being together and talking.
So scratching has a long history. I tell Simon that I am quite impressed by everything she has told me. Especially since she looks at issues so differently from me. I ask her if she can explain how she judges. She replies that she tries to “smear” her judgment: she doesn’t want to judge quickly and always tries to see the other side. “I want to redistribute my attention, explore how I can look after everything.” In our society, we are tempted to make a quick judgment: someone is this or that, good or evil, but according to Simon(s) there is so much more grey area to focus on. ‘I don’t believe in scarcity. We are not limited to paying attention or love. If you believe that, you will judge differently.”
Simon’s tip from Saarloos to prevent crabs:
We need to turn the issue around. We should not say: you should not condemn, but we must say: you must get involved. Participate, connect. Mariame Kaba, a social worker and activist, has been campaigning for years for women who are attacked by men. Mariame herself was raped. She said: ‘In the first two years you shouldn’t have asked me what I wanted to do with the offender because I wanted to kill him. But luckily I had smart people around me who said it wasn’t your job to judge now. You’re in pain and that’s okay, we’re here.’ Now Mariame no longer wants people to be imprisoned. She says you have to turn your pain into something positive, into commitment. When you are in pain, you feel that pain, turn it into a judgment, but in commitment.
Of: Scratch, Daan Borrel & Milou Deelen (Nijgh & Van Ditmar), is released on 16 June.
Sitting opposite each other in the café where we agreed, Simon (e) explains that she actually prefers not to speak out on the subject, “because it reproduces a typical image of jealous women, and I don’t see that at all. I can’t imagine you talking negatively about someone else. I can’t imagine that. I think it’s a make-up idea that women can’t hang out or support each other.’ She pauses for a moment and then says, “I don’t want to condemn the verdict because I’m participating in the same system.” She laughs. “Tricky.” Yes, it’s a myth that women couldn’t get along, that they would always scratch each other, but there’s more to say about the subject, it turns out when I’m going through it. At one point, Simon jumps up and grabs a stack of books from her pocket. “It’s a long story that you don’t want to connect with women other than women,” she says. “As white women in Europe, we have a history of oppressing other women in order to have some power. I find it’s also easier to annoy my mother for the opportunities she missed, rather than annoyed with the system – because what is that? It is easier to condemn your mother, another woman and thus herself, and then to direct the anger outward. I think we underestimate the consequences of condemning our mothers for generations.” A book she brought with her is called Witches, Witch Hunt and Women, written by Silvia Federici, and is the hardest subject. It is written about the witch-hunt in Europe in the sixteenth century. Witches were mainly older, single women who, when capitalism was born into capitalism – when the common country was divided among men and their families – had no country and no income, Simon explains. These so-called witches went against this division because they suddenly had no social position in the new system. For these women, the term “witch” was introduced because it made them appear as if the devil was living in these women. Devilship was attributed mainly to women, and with it hell appeared on earth for the first time. Women were afraid of it, of course they didn’t want a devil in them, no one wanted that, and so they began to watch other women and accuse other women of witchcraft, so that they themselves were protected by the state and men. In other words, they were pitted against each other. I listen in amazement to the story of this witch. When Simon was talked out, I realized that I never had a lesson in witch-hunting in high school. Almost all wars and other massacres passed, but witches, no. Thousands of women came to their ends in a cruel way, and yet I think of the word “witch” for creepy women in faded dresses on broomsticks. I never connect witches with my own life, so the story still influences how I see other women now. Simon(s) explains that it helps her not only to explain phenomena such as crabs psychologically, i.e. not to blame your mother or herself for certain behaviors, but in this case to investigate where in society people are urged to condemn others. Witch-hunting is an example of this. She explains that there are other things in the “architecture” of our society that make us disapprove of other people. For example, many buildings are not accessible to the disabled. Another example: some districts are described as poor due to the demographics of the population and the cost of owning a home, and these districts are then less well maintained and less easily accessible by public transport. “This creates the idea that some groups are better than others. It creates prejudice.” And vice versa, it works the same way: if there are already prejudices, the architecture is adjusted accordingly. It is a vicious circle in which abstract judgments have concrete consequences that feed judgments again. She picks up federici’s black-and-purple book again. “What she writes here is also very interesting for her research: the word “klatsch” meant before the sixteenth century, i.e. for the witch hunts, “girlfriend” or “meeting with other women”. Women gathered in a pub to clap: talk about life or make plans. “Gossip” was not a negative thing.” This gossip was made somewhat inferior because it was dangerous for those in power, because women could resist by being together and talking. So scratching has a long history. I tell Simon that I am quite impressed by everything she has told me. Especially since she looks at issues so differently from me. I ask her if she can explain how she judges. She replies that she tries to “smear” her judgment: she doesn’t want to judge quickly and always tries to see the other side. “I want to redistribute my attention, explore how I can look after everything.” In our society, we are tempted to make a quick judgment: someone is this or that, good or evil, but according to Simon(s) there is so much more grey area to focus on. ‘I don’t believe in scarcity. We are not limited to paying attention or love. If you believe that, you will judge differently.” By: Crabs, Daan Borrel & Milou Deelen (Nijgh & Van Ditmar), will be released on 16 June.
